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i do not see the point in life... someone please enlighten me...
what is the point of living? (use the comments section instead.... more permanence instead of the chatterbox storage of last 50 posts) maybe i should explain a little... i used to find joy in dancing... then it got to be quite stressful. then in the army i enjoyed running. running is what brought equality among the ranks. you can run fast means you are respected becasue a lot of men are not motivated to run. they would rather sleep in the bunk. so i ran, for my life, and with a smile on my face every time. when i got to university, the smile turned into a grimace as i struggled to keep up, to compete. then i realised... why compete? now i live to find that joy again. but is that enough? even if i manage to find it, so what? what is there to stop me from losing it again? is happiness all that important? to bring it to another level, must life even have a purpose? on a seperate note, book one of plato's republic has a sort of "monty python" style logic sequence as follows: BEDEMIR: Quiet, quiet. Quiet! There are ways of telling whether she is a witch. CROWD: Are there? What are they? BEDEMIR: Tell me, what do you do with witches? VILLAGER #2: Burn! CROWD: Burn, burn them up! BEDEMIR: And what do you burn apart from witches? VILLAGER #1: More witches! VILLAGER #2: Wood! BEDEMIR: So, why do witches burn? [pause] VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of wood...? BEDEMIR: Good! CROWD: Oh yeah, yeah... BEDEMIR: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood? VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her. BEDEMIR: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone? VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah. BEDEMIR: Does wood sink in water? VILLAGER #1: No, no. VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats! VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond! CROWD: The pond! BEDEMIR: What also floats in water? VILLAGER #1: Bread! VILLAGER #2: Apples! VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks! VILLAGER #1: Cider! VILLAGER #2: Great gravy! VILLAGER #1: Cherries! VILLAGER #2: Mud! VILLAGER #3: Churches -- churches! VILLAGER #2: Lead -- lead! ARTHUR: A duck. CROWD: Oooh. BEDEMIR: Exactly! So, logically..., VILLAGER #1: If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood. BEDEMIR: And therefore--? VILLAGER #1: A witch! CROWD: A witch! Bertram awoke @ 9:24 PM with
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Hee, you are enlightened! I've always thought that there is no point in living. I suppose the point is either to be a sadist and take joy in looking at a life without much meaning, or be an optimist and try to pretend that there is meaning.
Either way, life is still very much interesting. Haha. snapped out of it by
 Lucifer's Tears : December 05, 2005 11:13 PM our lives are not meant to be lived for our selves, but it is a journey of developing our relationship with god. Through that, great joy maybe found. That is the purpose of our lives. Only when we give up all hope on ourselves, hope is present.
Trying to pretend there is meaning is useless and escapist. snapped out of it by
 : December 06, 2005 12:12 AM Well here's the question: What makes you think there's a point in living? We don't have a choice in being born, we couldn't help it. We certainly didn't ask for it. We were forced into being, and continue being because it's too much trouble and too much fear to get rid of our existence. Isn't that reason enough to continue living? Life's mostly miserable anyway. If we have too much of a good thing we get sick and tired of it very fast. That's just the way humans are.
Oh oh I know. We are at an agreement now that humans were forced into existence, are we not? Because we had no choice in the matter, we can conclude that there would in all likelihood a significant number of people in existence now who would have refused existing if given a choice. Therefore life is, to a certain demographic, an undesirable state. Furthermore, after being forced into this undesirable state, the physicality of this state is such that humans tire of pleasure after it is repeated several times. Does this temporal state of pleasure not in itself prove that the condition of being is undesirable (assuming that pleasure is desirable and displeasure undesirable)? I hereby define your search for the meaning to life as searching for a way of preserving the pleasure of this state (of existence). In other words, you are attempting to discover a method of retaining pleasure while in a state that is inherently unpleasurable. The very grain of your existence goes against this notion of retaining pleasure and happiness. Does this not smack of futility? Are you not simply carried away by the romantic notions of happiness and meaning? I do not claim to have absolute knowledge. I do not even claim to have absolute certainty in my opinions. I cannot say whether it is true or not that living is a pleasurable or unpleasurable state. (How's my attempt at a pseudo-platonic dialogue[monologue]? Hahahaha but seriously, it's all ineffable. No one knows. And frankly, I don't really care. We're living. We're alive. Call me shallow, but as long as my life is pretty comfortable I don't give two hoots about things like the ultimate meaning of life. =P) snapped out of it by
Mei Chia : December 06, 2005 12:48 AM if life is not worth living, why do we still live?
we are forced into being yes, and it is too much of trouble and too much fear to get rid of it. if we have too much of a good thing we do get sick and tired of it very fast. does it then mean the opposite is true? that too much of a bad thing we do not get sick and tired of it and in fact indulge in it for a long time? if life is a bad thing then this holds true, agreed? now if we have an insect on our body, do we want to remove it as fast as we can? do we fear it? it is too much trouble to get rid of it? does it hurt us? is it displeasurable? we fear the insect, we do all we can to get rid of it, and it may hurt us. is the insect a bad thing? (replace insect with splinter or caltrops if desired) if an insect crawling on us is displeasurable and makes us want to get rid of it, it is defined as bad. if life is defined as bad, it must be displeasurable and makes us want to get rid of it as well. but we do not, for we still live to discuss things, so it must be good and pleasurable. before finding out what i was considering at first, that is, what the point of life is, i let go of that and pursued whether it is competition and suffering, or honour and happiness. and later, when in its turn an argument that life is pleasurable or displeasurable fell in my way, i could not restrain myself from leaving the other one and going after this one, so that now as a result of the discussion i know nothing. so long as i do not know what the point of life is, i shall hardly know whether it is happy or not and whether the one who lives feels pleasurable or displeasurable. or in other words, i ponder existence from time to time. and when it happens it is usually when i feel lost or depressed. there is no ultimate meaning of life. rather it is just a bouncing of ideas, which is an interesting enough activity on its own. snapped out of it by
Unknown : December 06, 2005 11:48 PM that too much of a bad thing we do not get sick and tired of it and in fact indulge in it for a long time?
Yes I believe this is true. The sense of martydom, or maybe an inherent social guilt, make unpleasurable things much easier to bear for long periods of time. now if we have an insect on our body, do we want to remove it as fast as we can? Of course we do. Perhaps you do not have the same sense of hysteria I get when an insect I particularly dislike lands on me, but I do believe you will not leave an insect to make its way all over your body. It is not too much trouble to get rid of it because we know that the action of removing this particular displeasure from our person will lead to a more pleasurable state. The same cannot be said of the removal of life. For all we know, the removal of this state of being will lead to another even more unpleasurable state. Furthumore, suicide is a "sin" and is something frowned upon by society by and large. That the deliberate cessation of life is something that SHOULD NOT and CANNOT be done has been pounded into our very being. This builds up a very strong inherent resistance to suicide. Removing a bug from your person, on the other hand, has no such stigma. (I will however, allow that the very stigma of suicide makes it an even more attractive option to certain people, but they are part of a minor group. Not insignificant, but minor.) is the insect a bad thing? The insect in itself is not a bad thing of course. It is its state of being on your person that is the undesirable and therefore "bad" thing. if life is defined as bad, it must be displeasurable and makes us want to get rid of it as well. but we do not, for we still live to discuss things, so it must be good and pleasurable. Your reasoning that simply because we do not get rid of life means it is pleasurable and good is a fallacy. As I have stated above, the magnitude of the two deeds (i.e that of suicide and of brushing an insect off) as well as the attitudes towards these two deeds are so vast and different that they cannot be compared. I await your esteemed reply. (*snigger*) snapped out of it by
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